2016 Election, Bernie Sanders, Elections, Issues, Tax

Most voters have ‘no idea’ which candidate’s tax plan they like best

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21581179719_5ec5445633_oAccording to a WalletHub/Survey Monkey poll released Monday, about 34% of voters have “no idea” which presidential candidate’s tax platform they like best. However, of those who did pick a candidate, Bernie Sanders’s tax plan had the most support:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has the most popular tax plan of any White House hopeful from either political party, according to a new survey.

About 23 percent of respondents like the Democratic presidential candidate’s tax strategy best, according to the WalletHub/Survey Monkey poll released Monday.

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton ranks second, with 13 percent preferring the former secretary of State’s outline instead.

Donald Trump, her Republican counterpart, ranks third, with approximately 12 percent.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) places fourth on the list, with nearly 8 percent, while Gov. John Kasich (R-Ohio) rounds out the top five, with about 5 percent.

Interestingly, roughly 59% of survey respondents also said they believe their current taxes are too high. That being said, a January analysis of Sanders’s tax plan from the independent Tax Foundation found that it would lead to a 10.56% lower after-tax income (read: even more of your hard-earned money would go to taxes) for all Americans, and a 17.91% lower after-tax income for the wealthiest Americans.

How many of the respondents who picked Sanders’s tax plan actually know that is impossible to say.

  • Zappafan1

    This tax polling is the direct result of people wanting “free” stuff, and because economics is not taught in public schools. heck, they don’t even teach kids the proper way to do basic math, but that’s another story. In 95% of colleges, they teach that Marxism/Socialism is the “right way” to run a country’s economic system, even thought it’s never worked in all of history.

    It’s bad enough that the average worker works from Jan 1st to the middle of May just to pay their local, state and Federal taxes. Burnie and Hillary want more than that. NO tax plan will work unless government spending goes down. The last quarter of last year the Federal government took in $1.2 Trillion in taxes, and they were $250 Billion short of what they had spent.

    It’s time for major changes.

    • John

      People can earn a certain amount of money without paying any income tax. It’s far more accurate to say that people are working from the middle of August to the END of the year, just to pay taxes!

      • Paul Smith

        Only because they are ignorant of the law.

      • Zappafan1

        … it’s still 5 months of your productivity, no matter where you stop and end. If taking 100% of a persons productivity is slavery, at what percentage is it not slavery (or involuntary servitude, as in the un-ACA)

        • John

          You’re correct. However, when working for an hourly wage, the taxes are deducted by whatever amount is taken from the information, such as dependents, that you give to the employer. I never wanted to work extra overtime in the later part of the year, because all it did was increase the amount of tax that I would owe, and I didn’t have enough time to increase the weekly deduction, so I didn’t get much of the overtime pay anyway.

    • Robert

      Zappafan; I do wish that the people and you would learn the difference between Marxism,Communism and Socialism. The USSR Union of Soviet Socialistic Republic, DPR Democratic Peoples Republic the USSR was never Socialistic and North Korea was never a Democracy, so comparing Socialism to Communism is like comparing an apple to a cherry. Most of Europe is Socialistic and has been for 150 years, Canada is Socialistic. Medical care there is as good as it is here and also it does not cost anything because your insurance that is mandatory, covers everything including your medication. The elderly there do not have to choose between food or medicine. If Socialism is so bad why does private industry thrive there, the happiest people in the world live in Socialistic countries. If you do not believe this just type in “WHERE DO THE HAPPIEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD LIVE” on your computer, the thriving of private industry proves that Socialism works in free society.
      HAVE A NICE DAY

      • Bill Steffen

        Robert – The U.S. is 75% white….Canada is 90% white…Norway is 98% white and Finland is 99% white. Canada and Socialist Europe has a whole lot more “white privilege” than the U.S. And you didn’t mention what you wanted the minimum wage to be in your socialist utopia. Do you want $15 or can we really get a living wage and increase that to $25 or $50 an hour?

        The corporate tax rate in the U.S. is the highest in the world: http://election2015.ifs.org.uk/business-taxes. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU

        • Robert

          Bill Steffen
          Bill what does the white population ratio have to do with anything about Socialism. Minimum wage has nothing to do with anything, if wages go up the price of the product goes up because the increased cost is always passed on to the consumer. The Corporate tax rate in this country is not the highest in the world the Corporate tax rate where mostly all Corporations in the world are incorporated in Delaware is approximately 8.7%, now if you want to talk about Corporate income tax why should a Corporation pay any less tax than a private individual, my tax rate for the year 2015 was over 33% and I DO NOT THINK THAT IS ENOUGH, By reducing Corporate tax rate you are just giving more money to the rich who do not need it and taking away from the less fortunate that do. Not everyone in the world can be a corporate executive, in a world of reality there must be a tier system the top earners to the bottom and it seems like the top earners want to keep all their money and let the bottom of the tier rot in squalor. Capitalism used to work for everyone until the crooks got educated and started running it like the mob, get rid of your competition and you can have it all, Now a small business has no chance of success unless you have connections, even Bill Gates would still be working in his garage if he did not have connections to help him along. Donald Trump did not get where he is without connections and should I say a rich father.
          Mr Steffen that is why we need Socialism in this country, which Europe found out years ago they needed to take care of the less fortunate. Maggie Thather nearly ruined England when she sided with the Corporations,
          You forgot to mention the unemployment rate in most of Europe is 25%,
          If you would care to look it up when your unemployment payments run out in the USA you are no longer counted as unemployed, so hence the rate in the US way of figuring it is about 6% in Europe you stay on the rolls until you are reemployed which makes it seem like their unemployment is much higher.
          I do like a good discussion with a Corporate person.
          HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Zappafan1

            I have friends and relatives who live in both Canada and Britain, and they’d argue against your mis-information. Check out the Venezuelan economy right now. There’s your Socialism/Marxism for you.

          • Robert

            Zappafan 1
            I have family in England both in London and in the North of England right on the Scotland border, in Cumberland, my daughter lives in Germany and my son in Norway. What wrong information did I give you. You are very right about Venezuela but you can always pick one bad apple out of a pile to show that the apples are no good. The USA has done everything it can to make Venezuela fail at everything.
            Socialism is not Marxism or Communism. If you can not differentiate the differences then you do not understand them at all. I know you are a die hard Capitalist, just show me one good thing about Capitalism that is good for the people on the bottom of the tier of life, I said before that in every form of Government there is a tier that is from the lowest to the highest, there is always someone on the bottom of the heap and in Capitalism the capitalist blame the people on the bottom for being there.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Zappafan1

            Everyone in America is born with a Silver spoon in their mouth. Whether they turn that spoon into Gold, Platinum or Palladium is up to each individual. Find the words to the old Frank Sinatra song, “That’s Life.” The same applies to every country that has even a modicum of freedom.

            Venezuela; Spain; Cuba; Russia…. there are many. And what has America done to prevent Venezuela from anything, especially with the guy currently in the White House?

          • Robert

            If you only knew what the US Government did to undermine the Venezuelan Government and the Cuban Government, back in the 60s right up until George Bush Presidency ended, I do not know after that because I retired.
            You do live in a world of delusion if you think everyone is born in an atmosphere that they can get rich in. You do not know much about social science and the Government that controls our social science, The aim of all governments is to keep a majority of the population down so that we have a work force. I had a company for a good many years and also worked for the Government for a good many of those years. You have no idea what the Government of the US does to control the people.
            I started a small business and it grew but it did not grow without connections that I made working for the Government.
            Do not tell me it is up to the person as to how their life evolves. I am 79 years old and have traveled extensively so I do know that Socialism works for everyone, not just a few with the right connections.
            The Capitalism we have in this country now is like the MOB, get rid of your competition,, but everyone seems to forget it was competition that made this country the great country it is.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Zappafan1

            You’re partially correct. As in Iraq, America doesn’t force any country to conform to what we believe. We do what we can to allow people to choose their own government and how they want to live.
            Socialism has never worked in all of history.

          • Robert

            Zappafan1
            Here we go again saying Socialism is Communism, the gap between the two is so enormous you could never associated the two, just because the USSR called itself a Socialist Government does not make it one, if you believe it does then I suppose you think North Korea is a Democratic Government because they call their country the called the Peoples Democratic Republic PDR. If Socialism has never worked how come most of Europe is Socialistic and have been for about 150 years and the happiest people in the world live there, you spoke of Greece they were never a true Socialist Government, they were more of a give away Government, Spain I have not done much research on that so I have no arguments, now Venezuela and Cuba the US Government did everything in its power to undermine both Governments, even supported Armed Rebellion to get rid of the leaders.
            Capitalist do not like Socialism because it cut into the moneys of the rich, and makes the people less dependent on the businesses that want cheap labor.
            Industry flourishes in all the Capitalist Countries and businesses do well. There is moderate price control on Necessities, not wants. Medical is a guaranteed right as long as you pay a very moderate premium compared to the US, there are no co-pays or prescription costs.
            I have lived in a Socialist Country and a lot of my family now lives in Socialist countries and are very happy there.
            Your statement ” Socialism has never worked in all of history.” it worked for the Native Americans for a thousand years. and it hads worked in Europe for at least 150 years.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Zappafan1

            Trying to explain much of this is like trying to explain the concept of “wet” to a fish. Goodbye.

          • Robert

            Zappafan 1
            I understand that you do not like debating with someone who deals in facts instead of BS, maybe your narrow point of view on the subjects has something to do with it.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Zappafan1

            Like the saying goes, I can explain something TO you, but I can’t understand it FOR you. I mean, I’ve only been following government/economics since 1967; what do I know?

          • Bill Steffen

            Robert – if you don’t think you pay enough tax…just pay more! No one is stopping you!! If corporations just pass the money along to customers as you say…why not just not have a corporate tax – just tax individuals? I give a decent amount of money to charity and I think I’m a better judge of where that money can be used most wisely than the cronies and lobbyists in D.C. Corporations pay a lot more than 8.7% tax. There is an air of jealousy and arrogance in socialism. They are jealous of achievers and take pleasure in sticking it to them. They also have a high opinion of themselves and think they can better manage an individuals money…and from there right down to the size drink of soda they are allowed to have.
            BTW in a country like Denmark…a relatively small percent of taxes goes to the “Federal” government. Most goes to a local government where they are more accountable. Bjorn manages the town and you see him at the local grocery store or tavern. If something is wrong, Bjorn hears about it.
            Progressives are really regressives…forcing us to live with less reliable and more expensive energy…trying to get us to buy small, less safe vehicles…and look at the schools they run in many of our inner cities. You don’t make the poor rich by making the rich poor.
            I’ve never been on a fishing trip to Canada. You’ve been more than once…that’s not fair. I demand that the government steal…er, I mean tax you and give the money to me so I can go fishing in Canada.

          • Robert

            Bill Steffens
            You say you are against Socialism yet you point out that it benefits the people who need it the most, the locals. In this country our tax dollars go to the connected. Like you said making the rich poor will not make the poor rich. The rich can afford it more than the bottom worker. My son lives and works in Norway and his tax burden was not that bad, and he prefers it to living here, He has been there almost 10 years. my other family members who live in England and Germany also prefer it there. The medical does not take away from the taxes paid because you buy health insurance from a not for profit company, all pills are price controlled.
            The scare tactics of calling Socialism Communism is really a bummer. It appears to work for some because they believe it.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Robert

            Bill Steffens
            This is a continuation because I was called away.
            Corporate tax rate in Delaware where nearly all Corporations are incorporated no matter where they are located,is around 8.75%. the Federal Tax rate for corporations is the same as it is for individuals as it should be. If Industry is stifled in Socialist Countries how does Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Subaru and all the other industry survive. Most all of the transmission used in American cars are made in Germany, look at any industrial machinery and see where it was made most in Europe or Italy.
            How do you come to the conclusion that the persons in Socialist Countries are jealous of Achievers, and how do they stick it to them. They pay the same as everyone else in the same catagory.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

      • Zappafan1

        I learned about all three decades ago, before the history books were re-written by Liberals/Democrats/Marxists. There’s very minor differences between Socialism, Marxism and Communism. Socialism/Marxism started here in America when FDR started the (failed) New Deal, and it’s been downhill ever since.
        What do you mean Canadian health care doesn’t cost anything? That’s pure crap-ola. And, why is it that thousands of Canadians come here for medical care? BECAUSE IT’S BETTER!

        I suppose one can be “happy” if you’re used to having your freedom taken away every week or two. Let me explain that to you: Money = Freedom.

        • Robert

          Zappafan1
          In Canada like in England when you buy your health care insurance through the state everything is paid for except medicinal cosmetics.
          The road in and out of Canada must be heavily traveled, all the people around our summer home just outside of Rangeley Maine all go to Canada because they get free care and medicine including dentures.
          Money=Freedom I suppose you again think everyone can make a load of money and hold on to it. Capitalism is the effect of convincing the people to spend all their money so the Capitalist can get richer. Those that never feel for the underclass have no morals at all.
          HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Zappafan1

            Capitalism is the exchange of goods or services between two or more parties at an an agreed to price.

            I know, literally, a hundred people who come to America from Canada for medical care.

            NOTHING IS FREE!!! where do you get that false assumption?

          • Robert

            Zappafan1
            Sounds like a good definition, but if that is the true definition then I suppose we do not have Capitalism. The way the definition you sent me is like at a swap meet of a gun show when buyer and seller haggle over a price for a product. What we have is a posted price you either pay it or you do not get it. That is no different in a Socialist country when you want to purchase something. My daughter who lives in London, England and in Cumberland have to pay nothing for the medical or medications for themselves or their children. My son in Norway pays nothing but his health insurance for him and his family.
            As far a Canada goes I have visited Canada on several occasions, and when my present wife got hurt skiing, we were charged nothing for the 5 days of hospitalization or care during the five days, Like I said the people who work and live around my summer home in Rangeley, Maine tell me that they all go to Canada for their medical care, i do not know but i do believe them because what reason would it be to lie about something like that.
            You are right nothing is free, you pay for the medical through state sold insurance, and your taxes.
            I would never qualify in this country for anything like that because my income at 79 puts me in the 33% tax bracket, I donate generously to a lot of good causes, My donations for 2014 tax purposes was just under $1 million. Yes I have lots of money and i do not mind sharing with less fortunate sometimes directly.
            You are in the misconception that everyone can be on top of the pile if the want to be and work hard at it. That is a misconception because look at the sport figures who make multi-million yearly, also the entertainment persons who also make large amounts and end up broke in a few years. there are also those that choose not to go for the top tier because of their morals.
            THIS IS WHY WE NEED CAPITALISM LIKE THEY HAVE IN EUROPE.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Paul Smith

            You are correct, we do not have Capitalism. We’re much closer to Fascism than Capitalism.

          • ourzoo10

            Really? You got free healthcare for your wife when she got hurt? How does that work? When I go into Canada to visit my son in Alaska, I have to show “proof of economic independence”……..So, who is kidding whom?

          • Robert

            ourzoo10
            My son and his wife just got back from Alberta and I ask him and he said that the only thing they asked for was his length of stay and destination and Identification.for which they used their passport. When they returned they had to show their Passport to the US side. That is the same thing that I have always had to do, except when we fly in for fishing, we are normally met at the little airport and ask the same questions that are asked at the border, the Canadian representative at the airport knows our party so he normally just talks to me..
            I travel the world and I have never in any country been asked for proof of anything to do with money or medical.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Robert

            ourzoo10
            years ago when I drove up the Alcan Highway I was asked upon entering if I had enough money and supplies to see me through. I simply answered yes and they let me proceed. I haven’t been in that part for some 30 years, I now understand that it is a 4 lane highway.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • ourzoo10

            We went up in 2008 above Bellingham…I distinctly remember being told somewhere that we needed proof of enough money to see us through…Because I needed to verify that the CC I was using was accepted in Canada.

          • ourzoo10

            ????

  • Richard Bagenstose

    they are voting for free stuff , that they will have to pay for 10 times over , wait till they get a job and 90% of there pay comes out for taxes , then watch them cry

    • Robert

      Richard Bagenstose
      When has any thing been free and taxes are a necessary evil. without our taxes there would be a lot less things that you enjoy and assume to be free.
      My income puts me in the highest tax category for income taxes and I do not mind paying them one bit because I know even though there is waste the taxes go for good things.
      Warren Buffett one of the richest in this country says that taxes on the wealthy are not large enough.
      HAVE AN NICE DAY

      • Paul Smith

        Would you pay all those taxes if you didn’t owe them?

  • LandMinesOTB

    As long as “the rich” are getting screwed more, the numbers don’t really matter, right? 8-/

    • Zappafan1

      Yeah, what the heck…. the top 10% already pay over 85% of our taxes. Let’s screw them some more.

      • Robert

        Zappafan 1
        I would like to know where you get your figures that the top 10% pay 85% of our taxes The figures from IRS says that the top 20% pay 70% of all income taxes collected, did you also see where the persons making over $2 million pay less tax than a family making $500,000. Taxes are a necessary evil, without them we would not have the highways we travel on or the bridges over rivers or affordable education, also the people on the low end of the pyramid of life would not be able to survive, in every thing and culture and even in the animal world there is a pyramid of life from the top to the bottom,
        There are people so ignorant in this world that they think everyone can be on top of the heap and because they are not they are lazy worthless persons.
        One never knows when they may end up on the bottom.

        HAVE A HAPPY DAY

        • Zappafan1

          Yes, yes…. roads and bridges, yada, yada. Taxes on everyone could be lower, since about 85% of what government does is not authorized by the Constitution. We’re not getting our monies worth in education as it is, and they want more…. but the schools aren’t failing in government’s eyes, they’re doing exactly what they’ve planned on. Reagan was right when he said they’re dumbing down our kids, and it’s by design.

          The rich and business owners already pay far too much in taxes. They
          already sacrifice too much. They already share their wealth too much.
          The top 1 percent of income earners (almost all of whom are small
          business owners) already pay 40 percent of the personal income taxes in
          America, more than the bottom 95 percent combined.

          The top 20 percent of income earners pay almost 100 percent of the
          income taxes in this country. That means 80 percent of the population
          pays almost no income taxes (a full 50 percent pay ZERO income tax).

          Obama said, “Warren Buffett’s secretary shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate
          than Warren Buffett.” The problem with that statement is that it’s a
          lie. Let’s get the facts straight.

          The typical household with over $1 million in income will pay an average
          of 29.1 percent in taxes this year. The typical household making
          between $50K and $75K will pay 15 percent in taxes. Lower income
          households (below $50K) will pay an average of 12.5 percent in federal
          taxes (virtually 100 percent in the form of Social Security taxes).

          In dollar terms that means the typical millionaire will pay $290,000 in
          taxes and the typical $50,000 middle-class family will pay $7,500. But,
          most importantly, almost all that $7,500 is Social Security taxes they
          will get back after age 65.

          Why doesn’t Obama quote the actual numbers and ask Americans if this
          sounds fair? One American pays $290,000 in taxes. The other pays $7,500.
          Obama calls this “unfair.” Well as you can see, he’s right. It’s
          definitely unfair — it’s unfair to the 20 percent of the citizens who
          pay virtually 100 percent of the cost of the governmental benefits,
          which are enjoyed for free by the other 80 percent of the population.

          • Robert

            Zappafan 1
            I do not know where you get your figures, but I can tell you by 2014 statistics that you are totally wrong the top 20% of earners pay 80% of income tax. Why should the people who make the most pay the most. The majority of taxes is paid by those in the over $1 million yearly, which is only 1% of the income population.
            Please explain to me why someone making over $1 million should not pay a higher percentage than someone making $125,000. It costs the same to live no matter what income bracket you are in. The majority of upper income persons do not mind their income taxes, Nearly everyone in our close social circle makes in excess of $3 million yearly, and there is only one that thinks the taxes are overly high. none of our group really does anything for America, because we are all retired, most at about 50 years old, we do not create jobs or support business most monies come from investments, and most on foreign investments.
            It was not Obama who said that Warren Buffett’s secretary should not pay a higher tax than @Warren Buffett it was the man himself, Mr Buffett who said it.
            Yes our School are failing the general public, that is because the politicians do not want our children educated. I f we had an educated population then the BS that the Politicians throw around would be easily seen through.
            There is always the equation that if you took all the money in the world and divided it up equally among all the people in the world, that in a period of 10 years the same people would have the same proportion of the wealth that they had before the redistribution. There are those that money is everything and there are those that it means a survival, and never the twain shall meet.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Paul Smith

            Most of you should be paying no taxes at all. . .

            ON TAX DAY – WHO AREN’T US TAX PAYERS?
            http://constitution.com/tax-day-fast-approaching-referred-u-s-taxpayers/

          • Zappafan1

            No. Cost of living depends largely upon where you live, which is why there’s no such thing as a universal “living wage.” I’d say that your ‘closed circle’ does, indeed, create jobs. If your money is held in a bank (not very smart, actually), you’re creating jobs, goods and services through the money that is loaned to people and businesses.

            Buffet can deposit any amount he wants directly to the Dept. of the Treasury. He doesn’t have to be taxed to do it. Has he sent any in? I doubt it, and I’d prefer to see the check stub.

            We agree on the education part. The first two jobs of government: 1- get larger and 2- take away more power from the states. The schools are not failing… they are succeeding in what they want to do. If “graduates” can’t survive and provide for themselves, they’ll turn to government (taxpayer funded) handouts. Like him or not, Reagan was right when he said that government was dumbing-down our kids.

            You’re going by percentage, which is not fair to those earning the money. The term “fair” shouldn’t even be used in anything concerning tax computation(s). “Fair” to who? What should be considered is the AMOUNT they pay; not a percentage. If taking 100% of a persons productivity is slavery, at what percentage does it stop being slavery?

          • Robert

            Zappafan1
            Money in the bank only helps the banker. I f one is that interested they should help a person with a good idea and the research data to back up the idea, to start a business and you back them for a percentage of the business. More money has been made by supposedly poor risks than by a cut and dried idea..
            Where did you ever get the idea you can just give money to the Government, I know a widow that was overpaid from the Government to the tune of $53,675 it took a lawyer and almost a year to get them to take the money back.
            The fairness is to tax everyone at a escalating rate according to their income.
            I do not understand the thinking of anyone that thinks that those that make the most should not have to pay the most, those that make the most can afford it many times over where the lowest payer has to worry about food or rent and medicine, those in the top earners never have to worry about those things.
            Most at the top were not there because they are any smarter than others, they are there because of CONNECTIONS.
            Why is 33% of $1 million compared to 15% of $65,000 so unfair, considering the cost of everything.
            No one that I have ever hear of pays 100%
            The Dumbing-down of our children can be blamed on the parents as much as anyone, I am 79 years old, single man and raising a 6 year old, he is so far ahead in school he should be in another grade but our school system does not promote ahead, our whole thing is education and sport, he knows his times tables by heart, has read a children’s book at age 12 level, each week and we discuss education at eh table, at the bus stop, Education is as much a home issue as it is a school issue. Years ago one parent stayed home and looked after the home and children and education was a big part pushed by the parents because most did not get to complete school. After WWII the whole picture changed, all these women that were working during the war time mow wanted to go back to work because then the family could have more, and the children’s education has suffered ever since. Most children only see their parents in the morning on the way to day care or school and at evening when they get in from work. We were fortunate, neither of my wives worked and they also pushed education and I think pushed Socializing to much.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Paul Smith

            ” The fairness is to tax everyone at a escalating rate according to their income.”. . .So long as that ‘income’ is taxable. Most people’s wages are not income and are not taxable. Most people donate to the Fed/State and think they’re paying taxes.

            For two decades after the 16th Amendment was ratified, less than 10% of wage earners filed tax returns or paid income tax yet no laws have changed since that time. Nothing changed except the percentage of people filing and donating to Washington. . .think about that.

          • Robert

            Paul Smith
            Like I said before there was a person in Delaware that spread the same BS you are spreading, I said he was still in jail but I was wrong he is now out.
            Would you care to check the records to see how many persons are in jail fro tax evasion and how many have their wages garnished to pay back taxes. Anyone who think that the public should not pay taxes is totally ignorant, without taxes we would not have the things we have here in this Country today that you use and enjoy.
            The 16th Amendment to the Constitution was passed by Congress in 1909 and fully ratified by the states in 1913. Now the definition of income as you are harping on has been around since about 1300.
            c. 1300, “entrance, arrival,” literally “a coming in;” see in (adv.) + come (v.). Perhaps a noun use of the late Old English verb incuman “come in, enter.” Meaning “money made through business or labor” (i.e., “that which ‘comes in’ as payment for work or business”) first recorded c. 1600. Compare German einkommen “income,” Swedish inkomst. Income tax is from 1790, introduced in Britain during the Napoleonic wars, re-introduced 1842; in U.S. levied by the federal government 1861-72, authorized on a national level in 1913.
            There was no lying by the Government about what income was. If there was then I am sure you can point out the articles in the papers that bring this up.
            You are probably in an institution now just trying to prove a non existant point about the wording of the tax laws.
            HAVE A NICE DAY

          • Paul Smith

            I don’t recommend tax evasion nor should you fail to file. I have no idea what scheme he used but it isn’t the legal one. The IRS does not define ‘income’ as Merriam Webster or even Black’s Law does.

            ” There was no lying by the Government about what income was. “. . .I did not say that the government lies. The correct definition of income and who is a US citizen for tax purposes is found in the tax code and is easy to dig out if you’re a tax lawyer so there is no lying. OTOH, they are under no obligation to tell you the whole truth either. If you don’t know the definition of US citizen or ‘income’ or US taxpayer then that’s on you. You CLAIM to be a US citizen and a US taxpayer when you fill out your 1040 and they are not going to correct your mistake. I’m sure you’ve heard that the tax system is primarily a system of voluntary donations. It is precisely that and donate it what you most likely do. You’ve been brainwashed and so propagandized that you’re too frightened to even check it out.

            Ignore me if you wish – no skin off my nose. Remain ignorant my friend. If not, http://www.losthorizons.com

  • I-RIGHT-I

    The problem is we have too many stupid voters. I mean really stupid people are allowed to vote. Get the people on the welfare roles off the voting roles and that removes about half the dummies. I’m not sure what we’re going to do about the women.

    • daves

      The women? Are you saying women are stupid?

      • I-RIGHT-I

        Stupid and evil, except for our mothers.

    • Zappafan1

      We should go back to the beginning, when only land/property owners were allowed to vote. Then they have a horse in the race.

      • I-RIGHT-I

        Works for me.

  • Paul Smith

    It is ignorant to choose a tax plan by which you will get screwed. There is nothing wrong with our current tax plan. The issue is that the IRS lies to Americans and Americans don’t know the truth. The truth is that the VAST majority of Americans do not owe any taxes as they have ZERO income (if you don’t know the legal definition of that word, you are a member of the ignorant majority).

    If you want to know more, read CRACKING THE CODE: The Fascinating Truth About Taxation in America by Peter Hendrickson.

    • Zappafan1

      You mean zero FEDERAL taxes. They still pay state/sales taxes.

  • daves

    I could care less about how much I pay in taxes, just whether I have a decent standard of living. I don’t think people in Somalia pay any tax but I’m certainly not envious of them.

    • Paul Smith

      So continue donating. We don’t mind.

    • Zappafan1

      For years the Dept. of the Treasury has had a way by which people can donate as much as they wish.

      • daves

        Do you disagree? You would rather live in squalor than pay taxes?

        • Zappafan1

          Neither one is reliant upon the other. Please explain the mechanism by which my paying less taxes would reduce my standard of living. Being able to keep more of what you produce is always a benefit. However, my hard work, taken by taxation, reduces my possible standard of living (freedom), then goes to someone who takes that money as if they deserve it simply because they breathe air.

          • daves

            My point was not that they do or don’t, just that the standard of living is far more important than the amount you pay in taxes.

            Yes they are related. Compare different countries in the world and show me where lower taxed people are living better.

  • Paul Smith

    Most voters don’t understand the current tax system and have no clue that any fair/flat tax system would be unconstitutional. Most tax payers are ignorant of the system and allow the IRS to lie and bully them into GIVING their money to the IRS. It doesn’t have to be that way.

    http://losthorizons.com/Documents/The16th.htm

  • Robert

    Any tax put on the public should be graduated by income like it is now. It is only fitting that the people who make the most should pay the higher percentage. A flat tax would be an undue burden on the lower income workers and a enormous benefit to the persons who need ( I did say NEED) the money the least. The only people yelling about the high taxes are the ones who make over $500,000 yearly, Some cheat the Government on taxes anyway, because everything they do is a business expense so deductible. The connected people have no idea how hard it is to make ends meet when you are on the bottom of the life tier, and to make it worse they do not care as long as they have more money that they will ever need in 2 life times.
    TAXES ARE A NECESSARY EVIL.
    HAVE A NICE DAY

    • Paul Smith

      Sad. Ignorance is SO expensive.

      • Robert

        Paul Smith
        I am sure your remark is aimed at me. If I am so ignorant how come I have so much money. I probably give more away each year than you will make in in the same year. Why do people think they need more than they can spend in a life time. I really do love a good discussion. If no one paid taxes as you suggest how would anything get done. Have you ever run anything but your mouth,or managed anything involved with money. Where would we get roads, bridges , schools, and help for the needy. I know in your opinion he world is full of free loaders that do nothing. An education is a wonderful thing if you learn anything. There are those that can go to the best of education institutions and learn nothing. Of course we could take your ideas of not paying taxes and return to the slave labor days before President Roosevelt. I know that is what the so called well connected is trying to do now by getting rid of all the safe guards the President Roosevelt put in place to protect our economy.
        HAVE A NICE DAY

        • Paul Smith

          We’re all ignorant, Robert. If you had half a brain you’d know that.

          As to paying taxes, I believe that anybody who owes taxes should pay taxes. I also believe that those who do not owe taxes should only donate to the government if they wish to. The trick is knowing the difference which you clearly don’t – ignorant. Sorry if that offends you.

          You have a nice day as well.

  • Richard Hennessy

    Ted Cruz ranks 4th because he doesn’t promise what he can’t (or won’t try to) deliver. Obama was elected twice because of what he promised. He couldn’t be elected once for what he delivered.

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